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Board index » Tribes: Ascend - Official Forums » Tribes: Ascend - Competitive & eSports

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State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

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 State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules 
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vector07


Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:43 pm
Posts: 49
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
Or with spotting. If you remove spotting (or make it cost credits), I think both shriking and sniping's become perfectly balanced.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:08 pm
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Buhlitz


Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:43 am
Posts: 910
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
vector07 wrote:
A couple of these fellas have it dead on. The lower the number of players, the more focus there is on individual talent and less focus on overall strategy.

7s is wicked boring. Not sure why people keep saying the game is "faster". There are more llamas in 7s, and there is more punting. These are things that make the game slower, not faster. Standoffs are also far less intense in 7s. Either you D-stack and can hold forever, or you O stack and rapidly overcome the other team. When both teams D-stack, we're seeing standoffs last minutes, whereas in 8s they were far shorter because of balanced O and D. Maybe my team's just not used to it yet, but so far 8s seem alot more fun, interesting, strategic, and fast-paced.



How?

Also can you link me to these games where 8 player teams have shorter stand offs than the average 7's game. Proof plz.


Also, please tell me exactly how 7's is more individual talent but less overall strategy. You aren't making sense.
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:55 pm
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vector07


Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:43 pm
Posts: 49
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
Personal experience is all. We played area51 last week in 8s, this week in 7s. Seems like a good control experiment. Last week standoffs never lasted more than 2-3 minutes. This week, there were standoffs that were so long it felt like turtling. End of katabatic is good example, 51 took the lead and then D-stacked, held flag for 6-7 minutes even against an O stack. On drydock, just to show how dumb it is, we D-stacked to the same effect after going up 4-2. Check Zoid or Blinks casts if you want to see, I believe they have VODs for both.

As for why I think it's more fun, interesting and strategic, do you want me to write an essay? It's my opinion. For example though, in your essay waxing about 7s, you say there are more possibilities for defense in 7s, and they all have weaknesses. That's correct, they all have weaknesses: it hardly even matters what D strategy you run, 4 competent offensive players will destroy you no matter what you do. That's not really fun, IMO, and I'm an offense player. In 8s, there are as many or more possibilities for the defense, and offensive strategy really has to adapt to what the D is doing. In an even match in 7s, on the other hand, the O can overcome the D regardless of strategy since they have player advantage.

I think what is primarily lost in 7s is HoF/tech. You include hof in your list of 7s defensive formations, but without a tech, HoF is pretty ineffective. So you can either tech, snipe, and... hof? with no chaser? or tech, snipe and chase with no hof? Or hof with no tech? I think there's a pretty obvious dominant strategy.. home D soldier, chase D, and snipe. Especially with the idiotic TWL rules w/ no upgrades in the pipeline, that basically eliminates all D strats with a tech and a hof. 7s might as well go to 6s or 5s, and play like tribes 1's LT mode. Which was very fun, but a very different game from 10v10 where strategies and teamwork overcome individual player talent.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:08 pm
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JohnnyRico
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:21 am
Posts: 150
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
vector07 wrote:
Personal experience is all. We played area51 last week in 8s, this week in 7s. Seems like a good control experiment. Last week standoffs never lasted more than 2-3 minutes. This week, there were standoffs that were so long it felt like turtling. End of katabatic is good example, 51 took the lead and then D-stacked, held flag for 6-7 minutes even against an O stack. On drydock, just to show how dumb it is, we D-stacked to the same effect after going up 4-2. Check Zoid or Blinks casts if you want to see, I believe they have VODs for both.

As for why I think it's more fun, interesting and strategic, do you want me to write an essay? It's my opinion. For example though, in your essay waxing about 7s, you say there are more possibilities for defense in 7s, and they all have weaknesses. That's correct, they all have weaknesses: it hardly even matters what D strategy you run, 4 competent offensive players will destroy you no matter what you do. That's not really fun, IMO, and I'm an offense player. In 8s, there are as many or more possibilities for the defense, and offensive strategy really has to adapt to what the D is doing. In an even match in 7s, on the other hand, the O can overcome the D regardless of strategy since they have player advantage.

I think what is primarily lost in 7s is HoF/tech. You include hof in your list of 7s defensive formations, but without a tech, HoF is pretty ineffective. So you can either tech, snipe, and... hof? with no chaser? or tech, snipe and chase with no hof? Or hof with no tech? I think there's a pretty obvious dominant strategy.. home D soldier, chase D, and snipe. Especially with the idiotic TWL rules w/ no upgrades in the pipeline, that basically eliminates all D strats with a tech and a hof. 7s might as well go to 6s or 5s, and play like tribes 1's LT mode. Which was very fun, but a very different game from 10v10 where strategies and teamwork overcome individual player talent.


I dunno about length of standoffs but I find that there are just way way more of them in 7s. This is largely due to how strong O is vs 3D.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:32 pm
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vector07


Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:43 pm
Posts: 49
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
JohnnyRico wrote:
I dunno about length of standoffs but I find that there are just way way more of them in 7s. This is largely due to how strong O is vs 3D.


You're right on there.

One more thing to add: more people = more chaos, which is fun. When one team's flag is home, and the other is taken, in 8s there is just absolute chaos crashing enemy stand to prevent cap. In 7s, its just one less person, but feels noticeably less exciting. That may be because, as Rico says, its not actually that common that the flag stays home...

Buhlitz - this guy nails it I think.

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:47 pm
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LL-Blu-J
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:14 am
Posts: 361
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
vector07 wrote:
A couple of these fellas have it dead on. The lower the number of players, the more focus there is on individual talent and less focus on overall strategy.

7s is wicked boring. Not sure why people keep saying the game is "faster". There are more llamas in 7s, and there is more punting. These are things that make the game slower, not faster. Standoffs are also far less intense in 7s. Either you D-stack and can hold forever, or you O stack and rapidly overcome the other team. When both teams D-stack, we're seeing standoffs last minutes, whereas in 8s they were far shorter because of balanced O and D. Maybe my team's just not used to it yet, but so far 8s seem alot more fun, interesting, strategic, and fast-paced.


Couldn't have said it better myself. We have been transiting from 8s to 7s to get ready for this tournament, and the gameplay feels so much slower. I think for the first time last night I wasn't sleepy and didn't wanna scrim anymore because it was so boring.

Our team is going to give it more time, but that's my opinion on it as of now.
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:04 pm
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-Thea-


Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 1621
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
JohnnyRico wrote:
vector07 wrote:
Personal experience is all. We played area51 last week in 8s, this week in 7s. Seems like a good control experiment. Last week standoffs never lasted more than 2-3 minutes. This week, there were standoffs that were so long it felt like turtling. End of katabatic is good example, 51 took the lead and then D-stacked, held flag for 6-7 minutes even against an O stack. On drydock, just to show how dumb it is, we D-stacked to the same effect after going up 4-2. Check Zoid or Blinks casts if you want to see, I believe they have VODs for both.

As for why I think it's more fun, interesting and strategic, do you want me to write an essay? It's my opinion. For example though, in your essay waxing about 7s, you say there are more possibilities for defense in 7s, and they all have weaknesses. That's correct, they all have weaknesses: it hardly even matters what D strategy you run, 4 competent offensive players will destroy you no matter what you do. That's not really fun, IMO, and I'm an offense player. In 8s, there are as many or more possibilities for the defense, and offensive strategy really has to adapt to what the D is doing. In an even match in 7s, on the other hand, the O can overcome the D regardless of strategy since they have player advantage.

I think what is primarily lost in 7s is HoF/tech. You include hof in your list of 7s defensive formations, but without a tech, HoF is pretty ineffective. So you can either tech, snipe, and... hof? with no chaser? or tech, snipe and chase with no hof? Or hof with no tech? I think there's a pretty obvious dominant strategy.. home D soldier, chase D, and snipe. Especially with the idiotic TWL rules w/ no upgrades in the pipeline, that basically eliminates all D strats with a tech and a hof. 7s might as well go to 6s or 5s, and play like tribes 1's LT mode. Which was very fun, but a very different game from 10v10 where strategies and teamwork overcome individual player talent.


I dunno about length of standoffs but I find that there are just way way more of them in 7s. This is largely due to how strong O is vs 3D.


This, so much this. This is why I like 8s better.
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm
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Frizzer


Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 121
Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
vector07 wrote:
Personal experience is all. We played area51 last week in 8s, this week in 7s. Seems like a good control experiment. Last week standoffs never lasted more than 2-3 minutes. This week, there were standoffs that were so long it felt like turtling. End of katabatic is good example, 51 took the lead and then D-stacked, held flag for 6-7 minutes even against an O stack. On drydock, just to show how dumb it is, we D-stacked to the same effect after going up 4-2. Check Zoid or Blinks casts if you want to see, I believe they have VODs for both.

As for why I think it's more fun, interesting and strategic, do you want me to write an essay? It's my opinion. For example though, in your essay waxing about 7s, you say there are more possibilities for defense in 7s, and they all have weaknesses. That's correct, they all have weaknesses: it hardly even matters what D strategy you run, 4 competent offensive players will destroy you no matter what you do. That's not really fun, IMO, and I'm an offense player. In 8s, there are as many or more possibilities for the defense, and offensive strategy really has to adapt to what the D is doing. In an even match in 7s, on the other hand, the O can overcome the D regardless of strategy since they have player advantage.

I think what is primarily lost in 7s is HoF/tech. You include hof in your list of 7s defensive formations, but without a tech, HoF is pretty ineffective. So you can either tech, snipe, and... hof? with no chaser? or tech, snipe and chase with no hof? Or hof with no tech? I think there's a pretty obvious dominant strategy.. home D soldier, chase D, and snipe. Especially with the idiotic TWL rules w/ no upgrades in the pipeline, that basically eliminates all D strats with a tech and a hof. 7s might as well go to 6s or 5s, and play like tribes 1's LT mode. Which was very fun, but a very different game from 10v10 where strategies and teamwork overcome individual player talent.


solid post
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:59 pm
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Newmz
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:44 pm
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Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
Buhlitz wrote:


Also, please tell me exactly how 7's is more individual talent but less overall strategy. You aren't making sense.

It's less forgiving with 7s, because no one can cover your mistakes. I'm not saying with something else somebody will always cover your mistakes, but someone on your team might be able to deal with it without leaving their duties with more people per team. and it's also likely that a team would be able to beat one with less talent, even though they might have better strategy. like how somebody with incredible OMGWTFHAX aim is going to beat someone with better dueling skills than him but may not have exceptional aim.
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:25 pm
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TripleAAA
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:46 pm
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Post Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
7v7 sucks and will ruin this already ruined game. It should be 10v10 so more classes can be used. But it seems only a few get to make the rules for how they want it to be. Good luck, in a few months it will be about 4-7 active teams in 7v7.
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:29 pm
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