Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

Observation, feedback
Author	Message
Kusariyaro Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm Posts: 32	Observation, feedback started playing Tribes recently and after some experimenting and playing, me and my 2 mates came to some conclusions: 1. Infiltrator is severely underpowered 2. Spinfusor based weapons are way too strong AOE dmg, and only require a moderate aiming skill to kill people 3. Snipers have a too small zoom compared to the size of the map ie. one sniper (im the solo sniper on the map) can't cover most of the map; 4. Starting weapons for sniper are too separated; A skillful and a moderate dmg pistol and and long winding super skill shooting sniper rifle that doesn't even scratch at certain range, and inflict VERY low damage on heavier classes, making the heavies the strongest by default 5. Abuse of Spinfusors and Pathfinders, almost 35% of the teams are either JUG or PTH, due to spinfusors and PTH's move speeds; 6. Bigger map variety 7. Connection isses 8. Needs faster auto balancing; 9. Team death match should not have a flag in it; 10. CTF should be real CTF, get a flag put a flag in base. 11. Too many classes and only just a few are mostly played. My 5 cents
Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:51 pm

Skrrew Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:50 am Posts: 400	Re: Observation, feedback Gal stop trolling, groundpounding is a well known problem and to see how fun-loving and cool it is one only needs to play on an explosives only server.
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:04 pm

VashTHT Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm Posts: 1228	Re: Observation, feedback Skrrew wrote: Gal stop trolling, groundpounding is a well known problem and to see how fun-loving and cool it is one only needs to play on an explosives only server. I agree. Explosives are way too easy. Automatics should be Hitscan, and they should do more damage to balance out how OP Explosives are. _________________ ... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 pm

Kusariyaro Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm Posts: 32	Re: Observation, feedback @Galileus You are pathetic excuse of a human being. Your existence boils down to a forums dwelling pseudo-organism that thrives on the idea of "being the smartest" You are an existence below that of a regular forums trolls. They try hard to insult , to make us feel stupid. You kind just trows s*** around with their noses held high. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop replying to my threads. This will also serve as to show that there is no reasoning with your kind.
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:07 pm

VashTHT Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm Posts: 1228	Re: Observation, feedback Kusariyaro wrote: @Galileus You are pathetic excuse of a human being. Your existence boils down to a forums dwelling pseudo-organism that thrives on the idea of "being the smartest" You are an existence below that of a regular forums trolls. They try hard to insult to, to make you feel stupid. You kind just trows s*** around with their noses held high. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop replying to my threads. This will also server as to show that there is no reasoning with your kind. You do realize he and I have been playing and following this game for a lot of time and we do understand that most of your complaints are because you aren't skilled at the game? Hi-Rez tried to balance the game around the exact same suggestions you're giving, the result was everyone who was actually good at this game went from being good to SUPER OP. If Hi-Rez made the changes you want you'd still complain because if they Buff a class that means EVERYONE gets a buff'ed class, and that means the people who are good are going to be extremely good. We tried many of your suggestions and it resulted in very broken games. I see you've spent most of your time on SMITE. This is a different game than SMITE. Tribes: Ascend requires a lot more skill. Practice and you'll see some of your suggestions aren't needed. _________________ ... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:12 pm

Galileus Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:49 am Posts: 1522	Re: Observation, feedback You want reasoning? I'll give you reasoning. Try to humor me, and not make this a pathetic waste of time. Not like I believe you can, but let's say I'm merry today. Or drunk. Either works. Ready? 1. You have no idea how to play infiltrator if you think it's underpowered. In consensus it's believed to be borderline OP in some loadouts and cheap tricks such as smoke nades make it impossible for you to loose a 1v1 fight with aware heavy - where, shall I remind you, heavier classes by definition in a standoff 1v1 should carry the weight with them. 2. AOE weapons - or, as anyone who knows the game calls em, burst damage weapons - are fine. You can groundpound all you want, agains an emeny who knows how to move and duel and use both weapons, you have no chance. This is a game of positioning and spin's AOE is an ant bite compared to what any decent opponent will do you with his auto in the meantime. 3. Snipers are precise strike class, used to counter pathfinders. Your point has no merit at all - one sniper covering whole map (meaning - sniping everyone) would simply break the game. Not to mention good snipers can snipe well cross-map - which only shows your information is incorrect and proves you're pointing only at your lack of skill - not a real issue. 4. Sniping heavies is a proof of not knowing how to play the game. Once again - sniper's role is spotting and countering pathfinders. If you snipe heavies, you play it wrong. Your point has no merit. 5. Abuse of spinfusors? Last time I checked on 10-50 servers, I have not noticed. And how can you even abuse a spinfusor is beyond me - it's your bread and butter weapon. It's like saying skiing is abused - it's simply wrong and makes no sense. Here still? Not bored by arguments yet? Want to proove there is no reasoning with me after all? Humor me, little man. _________________ ... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Lesteriuse Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm Posts: 1893 Location: Zagreb, Croatia	Re: Observation, feedback seriously gali youre not accomplishing anything by being a huge dick to a new player. ill even have to put on my punctuation suit to remedy this 1. When it comes to pubs and an inf is faced against 5 technicians and 2 sentinels covering the whole base with their drop jammers, yes, the infiltrator can be considered as underpowered. It's a really tricky class to balance, though, even when perfectly balanced it's still a cheese class and it's usually not really fun to play against. 2. I'd actually agree with this, but not in this context. Pretty much everything in this game is far too easy, from explosive weapons(huge AoE with banded splash, floaty physics), to chains(large hitbox, no inheritance, floaty physics). Linear splash and a 25% damage reduction would make explosives tolerable, but chains are much harder to get right. 3. I urge you to watch this and then comment on how a single sentinel can't cover a single map. Good sentinels already completely shut down entire maps, Jixid in particular could snipe a capper off during Crossfire before the capper even got to his first nitron. Now imagine if you had a couple of players like this in every pub since more zoom levels would make this insanely easy. 4. The sniper rifles already do a lot of damage, you should really experience how unforgiving it is to play against a good sentinel. One of the most (rightfully) complained about things about this game is how the sentinel is too strong and offers no counterplay. It even counters its own counter (jammer pack against inf), which is just terrible game design. 5. I really don't see how you could say Spinfusors are being abused, and 35% of a team being pathfinder/jug isn't really unexpected and bad. The PTH is the primary capping class, and the JUG is the go-to class when fighting a 10-man dstack that tears apart anything that goes near their base. If anything, I'd say the emphasis is put on SLD since it's the jack-of-all-trades and the go-to killing class. _________________ A thread on performance bottlenecks in the engine and what needs to be optimised My blueplate/mid-air nitron montage
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:24 pm

Kusariyaro Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm Posts: 32	Re: Observation, feedback I am talking about balance in regular TDM; 800 Dmg Spinfusor with an AOE, that shoots a line with no falling arc is too easy to land; 500 Dmg vs 800 dmg. One hits from miles away, but it requires a lot of patience and proper timing and aiming, the other is just there; Once I am spotted by a SPinfusor player he might as well snipe me since it travels way too long (almost like a sniper shot) That means while I am aiming my shots a cross tower PTH or Jug will snipe me with an line AOE explosion. And don't get me wrong; I am not saying the SEN is weak by any means, it's setup gear is solid and fits the role. I find it enjoyable to last hit people in air; But initiating a long range fight with SLD+ class is a waste of bullets; The second I switched to JUG and got the spinfusor, i racked up 3 easy kills. I didn't even have to think to much; See where the person is falling - Attack ground, person dies. I tried INF in a TDM.... and it is like a child entering a MMA ring. Everyone has more utility, my invis is practically useless ( I sniped my INF friend with ease even when he was cloaked) and the SMG is in your face weapon that can only score kills at small ranges. But if you are telling me that the classes work properly in a proper game mode, I will take it as my inexperience, as I have no solid facts or idea how the game works in that region. I am basing my balance ideas just around the experience in the CTF and TDM modes; So i will be TL;DRing: 1. Snipers are fully skill based and can only nuke lighter classes, not to mention the concept of a sniper is hitting standing targets, ie countering other SEN. In general they feel like a kill stealing class, and can't stand on their own vs heavies; 2. Bombarding ground below the player is too easy, too strong and fun killer. One match ended in everyone using Spinfusors just to stand a chance to get a kill; 3. INF may be good on other modes, but he is way to weak with his fake invisibility, almost powerless gear and overall weak HP
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:41 pm

VashTHT Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm Posts: 1228	Re: Observation, feedback Kusariyaro wrote: I am talking about balance in regular TDM; 800 Dmg Spinfusor with an AOE, that shoots a line with no falling arc is too easy to land; 500 Dmg vs 800 dmg. One hits from miles away, but it requires a lot of patience and proper timing and aiming, the other is just there; Once I am spotted by a SPinfusor player he might as well snipe me since it travels way too long (almost like a sniper shot) That means while I am aiming my shots a cross tower PTH or Jug will snipe me with an line AOE explosion. And don't get me wrong; I am not saying the SEN is weak by any means, it's setup gear is solid and fits the role. I find it enjoyable to last hit people in air; But initiating a long range fight with SLD+ class is a waste of bullets; The second I switched to JUG and got the spinfusor, i racked up 3 easy kills. I didn't even have to think to much; See where the person is falling - Attack ground, person dies. I tried INF in a TDM.... and it is like a child entering a MMA ring. Everyone has more utility, my invis is practically useless ( I sniped my INF friend with ease even when he was cloaked) and the SMG is in your face weapon that can only score kills at small ranges. But if you are telling me that the classes work properly in a proper game mode, I will take it as my inexperience, as I have no solid facts or idea how the game works in that region. I am basing my balance ideas just around the experience in the CTF and TDM modes; So i will be TL;DRing: 1. Snipers are fully skill based and can only nuke lighter classes, not to mention the concept of a sniper is hitting standing targets, ie countering other SEN. In general they feel like a kill stealing class, and can't stand on their own vs heavies; 2. Bombarding ground below the player is too easy, too strong and fun killer. One match ended in everyone using Spinfusors just to stand a chance to get a kill; 3. INF may be good on other modes, but he is way to weak with his fake invisibility, almost powerless gear and overall weak HP When you're sniping, do you stand in one spot, or do you move? Of course if you stand there and do nothing the Spinfusor Disc is going to hit you. If you move, however, defeating an enemy when you have a range advantage is far easier because you can simply side-step his Spinfusor Discs. Also, again, you make it sound like you have to spend a ton of time to line-up a Sniper Rifle Shot, and really, the better you are at the game the less time that should take. The Sentinel is not an easy class. Buffing that class would make people who are good at the Sentinel basically be impossible to beat. You have to understand balancing a game means balancing it for everyone, not just you. If the Sentinel is buffed for you that won't matter if everyone else who is more skilled with the Sentinel is STILL more powerful than you. You'll go from saying, "Sentinels are weak," to saying, "All these OP Sentinels keep destroying me before I can make even 1 shot, please nerf them." And, I can't speak for everyone, though it seems like TDM has a Flag because the game would be horrible without an objective. Arena is the game you're thinking of, and basically it doesn't work because most of these classes are designed for CTF. Hi-Rez was not interested in balancing for CTF AND Arena. In TDM the Flag is very important and this allows Infiltrators and Sentinels to be more useful. Without the Flag most TDM matches would be constant Chicken-Fights where people never engage, they never close distances, they run around aimlessly firing off random shots because there's no incentive to actually fight. In Call of Duty you can have TDM without a Flag because it's basically impossible to spawn anywhere without an enemy being right next to you. Tribes: Ascend isn't like this because of the Skiing and Jetpacks it has. _________________ ... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Galileus Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:49 am Posts: 1522	Re: Observation, feedback Kusariyaro wrote: Loadsa text Yup, you actually know what you're talking about. AND acknowledge your mistakes may be the inexperience. Lester s right, I was a dick for jumping at you with "bash the troll" routine right away. For my defence we got way more trolls than newcomers in here lately. So I guess sorry, kiddo. I still reserve the rights to be a huge dick when you get experienced and/or if you want stronger aimbot turrets for TCNs. Otherwise, as above. _________________ ... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:16 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Observation, feedback

Author

Message

Kusariyaro

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm
Posts: 32

Observation, feedback

started playing Tribes recently and after some experimenting and playing, me and my 2 mates came to some conclusions:
1. Infiltrator is severely underpowered
2. Spinfusor based weapons are way too strong AOE dmg, and only require a moderate aiming skill to kill people
3. Snipers have a too small zoom compared to the size of the map ie. one sniper (im the solo sniper on the map) can't cover most of the map;
4. Starting weapons for sniper are too separated; A skillful and a moderate dmg pistol and and long winding super skill shooting sniper rifle that doesn't even scratch at certain range, and inflict VERY low damage on heavier classes, making the heavies the strongest by default
5. Abuse of Spinfusors and Pathfinders, almost 35% of the teams are either JUG or PTH, due to spinfusors and PTH's move speeds;
6. Bigger map variety
7. Connection isses
8. Needs faster auto balancing;
9. Team death match should not have a flag in it;
10. CTF should be real CTF, get a flag put a flag in base.
11. Too many classes and only just a few are mostly played.
My 5 cents

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:51 pm

Skrrew

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:50 am
Posts: 400

Re: Observation, feedback

Gal stop trolling, groundpounding is a well known problem and to see how fun-loving and cool it is one only needs to play on an explosives only server.

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:04 pm

VashTHT

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 1228

Re: Observation, feedback

Skrrew wrote:

Gal stop trolling, groundpounding is a well known problem and to see how fun-loving and cool it is one only needs to play on an explosives only server.

I agree. Explosives are way too easy. Automatics should be Hitscan, and they should do more damage to balance out how OP Explosives are.

_________________

... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 pm

Kusariyaro

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm
Posts: 32

Re: Observation, feedback

@Galileus
You are pathetic excuse of a human being.
Your existence boils down to a forums dwelling pseudo-organism that thrives on the idea of "being the smartest"
You are an existence below that of a regular forums trolls. They try hard to insult , to make us feel stupid. You kind just trows s*** around with their noses held high.
Please, for the sake of humanity, stop replying to my threads. This will also serve as to show that there is no reasoning with your kind.

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:07 pm

VashTHT

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 1228

Re: Observation, feedback

Kusariyaro wrote:

@Galileus
You are pathetic excuse of a human being.
Your existence boils down to a forums dwelling pseudo-organism that thrives on the idea of "being the smartest"
You are an existence below that of a regular forums trolls. They try hard to insult to, to make you feel stupid. You kind just trows s*** around with their noses held high.
Please, for the sake of humanity, stop replying to my threads. This will also server as to show that there is no reasoning with your kind.

You do realize he and I have been playing and following this game for a lot of time and we do understand that most of your complaints are because you aren't skilled at the game?

Hi-Rez tried to balance the game around the exact same suggestions you're giving, the result was everyone who was actually good at this game went from being good to SUPER OP.

If Hi-Rez made the changes you want you'd still complain because if they Buff a class that means EVERYONE gets a buff'ed class, and that means the people who are good are going to be extremely good.

We tried many of your suggestions and it resulted in very broken games. I see you've spent most of your time on SMITE. This is a different game than SMITE. Tribes: Ascend requires a lot more skill.

Practice and you'll see some of your suggestions aren't needed.

_________________

... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:12 pm

Galileus

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:49 am
Posts: 1522

Re: Observation, feedback

You want reasoning? I'll give you reasoning. Try to humor me, and not make this a pathetic waste of time. Not like I believe you can, but let's say I'm merry today. Or drunk. Either works.

Ready?

1. You have no idea how to play infiltrator if you think it's underpowered. In consensus it's believed to be borderline OP in some loadouts and cheap tricks such as smoke nades make it impossible for you to loose a 1v1 fight with aware heavy - where, shall I remind you, heavier classes by definition in a standoff 1v1 should carry the weight with them.
2. AOE weapons - or, as anyone who knows the game calls em, burst damage weapons - are fine. You can groundpound all you want, agains an emeny who knows how to move and duel and use both weapons, you have no chance. This is a game of positioning and spin's AOE is an ant bite compared to what any decent opponent will do you with his auto in the meantime.
3. Snipers are precise strike class, used to counter pathfinders. Your point has no merit at all - one sniper covering whole map (meaning - sniping everyone) would simply break the game. Not to mention good snipers can snipe well cross-map - which only shows your information is incorrect and proves you're pointing only at your lack of skill - not a real issue.
4. Sniping heavies is a proof of not knowing how to play the game. Once again - sniper's role is spotting and countering pathfinders. If you snipe heavies, you play it wrong. Your point has no merit.
5. Abuse of spinfusors? Last time I checked on 10-50 servers, I have not noticed. And how can you even abuse a spinfusor is beyond me - it's your bread and butter weapon. It's like saying skiing is abused - it's simply wrong and makes no sense.

Here still? Not bored by arguments yet? Want to proove there is no reasoning with me after all? Humor me, little man.

_________________

... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Lesteriuse

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Observation, feedback

seriously gali youre not accomplishing anything by being a huge dick to a new player. ill even have to put on my punctuation suit to remedy this

1. When it comes to pubs and an inf is faced against 5 technicians and 2 sentinels covering the whole base with their drop jammers, yes, the infiltrator can be considered as underpowered. It's a really tricky class to balance, though, even when perfectly balanced it's still a cheese class and it's usually not really fun to play against.

2. I'd actually agree with this, but not in this context. Pretty much everything in this game is far too easy, from explosive weapons(huge AoE with banded splash, floaty physics), to chains(large hitbox, no inheritance, floaty physics). Linear splash and a 25% damage reduction would make explosives tolerable, but chains are much harder to get right.

3. I urge you to watch this and then comment on how a single sentinel can't cover a single map. Good sentinels already completely shut down entire maps, Jixid in particular could snipe a capper off during Crossfire before the capper even got to his first nitron. Now imagine if you had a couple of players like this in every pub since more zoom levels would make this insanely easy.

4. The sniper rifles already do a lot of damage, you should really experience how unforgiving it is to play against a good sentinel. One of the most (rightfully) complained about things about this game is how the sentinel is too strong and offers no counterplay. It even counters its own counter (jammer pack against inf), which is just terrible game design.

5. I really don't see how you could say Spinfusors are being abused, and 35% of a team being pathfinder/jug isn't really unexpected and bad. The PTH is the primary capping class, and the JUG is the go-to class when fighting a 10-man dstack that tears apart anything that goes near their base. If anything, I'd say the emphasis is put on SLD since it's the jack-of-all-trades and the go-to killing class.

_________________

A thread on performance bottlenecks in the engine and what needs to be optimised
My blueplate/mid-air nitron montage

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:24 pm

Kusariyaro

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:41 pm
Posts: 32

Re: Observation, feedback

I am talking about balance in regular TDM; 800 Dmg Spinfusor with an AOE, that shoots a line with no falling arc is too easy to land; 500 Dmg vs 800 dmg. One hits from miles away, but it requires a lot of patience and proper timing and aiming, the other is just there; Once I am spotted by a SPinfusor player he might as well snipe me since it travels way too long (almost like a sniper shot) That means while I am aiming my shots a cross tower PTH or Jug will snipe me with an line AOE explosion.
And don't get me wrong; I am not saying the SEN is weak by any means, it's setup gear is solid and fits the role. I find it enjoyable to last hit people in air; But initiating a long range fight with SLD+ class is a waste of bullets; The second I switched to JUG and got the spinfusor, i racked up 3 easy kills. I didn't even have to think to much; See where the person is falling - Attack ground, person dies.
I tried INF in a TDM.... and it is like a child entering a MMA ring. Everyone has more utility, my invis is practically useless ( I sniped my INF friend with ease even when he was cloaked) and the SMG is in your face weapon that can only score kills at small ranges.
But if you are telling me that the classes work properly in a proper game mode, I will take it as my inexperience, as I have no solid facts or idea how the game works in that region.
I am basing my balance ideas just around the experience in the CTF and TDM modes;
So i will be TL;DRing:
1. Snipers are fully skill based and can only nuke lighter classes, not to mention the concept of a sniper is hitting standing targets, ie countering other SEN. In general they feel like a kill stealing class, and can't stand on their own vs heavies;
2. Bombarding ground below the player is too easy, too strong and fun killer. One match ended in everyone using Spinfusors just to stand a chance to get a kill;
3. INF may be good on other modes, but he is way to weak with his fake invisibility, almost powerless gear and overall weak HP

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:41 pm

VashTHT

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 1228

Re: Observation, feedback

Kusariyaro wrote:

When you're sniping, do you stand in one spot, or do you move?

Of course if you stand there and do nothing the Spinfusor Disc is going to hit you.

If you move, however, defeating an enemy when you have a range advantage is far easier because you can simply side-step his Spinfusor Discs. Also, again, you make it sound like you have to spend a ton of time to line-up a Sniper Rifle Shot, and really, the better you are at the game the less time that should take.

The Sentinel is not an easy class. Buffing that class would make people who are good at the Sentinel basically be impossible to beat. You have to understand balancing a game means balancing it for everyone, not just you. If the Sentinel is buffed for you that won't matter if everyone else who is more skilled with the Sentinel is STILL more powerful than you. You'll go from saying, "Sentinels are weak," to saying, "All these OP Sentinels keep destroying me before I can make even 1 shot, please nerf them."

And, I can't speak for everyone, though it seems like TDM has a Flag because the game would be horrible without an objective. Arena is the game you're thinking of, and basically it doesn't work because most of these classes are designed for CTF.

Hi-Rez was not interested in balancing for CTF AND Arena.

In TDM the Flag is very important and this allows Infiltrators and Sentinels to be more useful. Without the Flag most TDM matches would be constant Chicken-Fights where people never engage, they never close distances, they run around aimlessly firing off random shots because there's no incentive to actually fight.

In Call of Duty you can have TDM without a Flag because it's basically impossible to spawn anywhere without an enemy being right next to you. Tribes: Ascend isn't like this because of the Skiing and Jetpacks it has.

_________________

... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Galileus

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:49 am
Posts: 1522

Re: Observation, feedback

Kusariyaro wrote:

Loadsa text

Yup, you actually know what you're talking about. AND acknowledge your mistakes may be the inexperience. Lester s right, I was a dick for jumping at you with "bash the troll" routine right away. For my defence we got way more trolls than newcomers in here lately. So I guess sorry, kiddo.

I still reserve the rights to be a huge dick when you get experienced and/or if you want stronger aimbot turrets for TCNs. Otherwise, as above.

_________________

... it got a nice ring to it, don't ya think?

Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:16 pm

Forum rules

Observation, feedback