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Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF
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-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5291 Location: NA East	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF Why did they veer so far away from Tribes with Ascend? The beautiful thing about a game being that good, is even if it doesn't gain massive amounts of players with fun-loving and cool gimmicks, and appeals to low skilled players with short attention spans, when it does captivate someone, it's almost absolute. It doesn't "lose" player base to anything that wouldn't have been lost by every other title. You don't quit playing Tribes, because it's boring, or you found something else better. You quit playing Tribes, because you have a new job, or a kid to raise, and you don't have time for video games anymore. You quit Tribes because your computer broke, or is out dated, and you can't afford to fix it. These people just don't get it. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Netsky200n Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:46 am Posts: 221	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF It's pretty much in the hands of other groups now. We may as well ignore the forums, as they do.
Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:10 am

Melanious Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm Posts: 2232 Location: NA West	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF I guess I should clarify. I think Core spawns is the answer, not naked spawns so much. I haven't personally seen how naked spawns would play out, but I think it does discourage too much needed play (Offense) to work well. Core spawns would still give many a role in what they need to do, between killing off base assets, chasing, capping, stand disrupt, while taking away deployables as someone is killed (TCNs, SENs & DMBs). It would be nice if HiRez just implemented this upon any classes death, as to actively reward O for the job they are doing, instead of it being mitigated 5 seconds later. I wouldn't hold my breath that HiRez will do work though, and because of that, Core Spawns is the best this is what we have option to implement. I don't think anyone thinks it will solve all dstacking, but again it helps, and makes more sense then what we have now. socalPK wrote: Which claims exactly? It is true I am playing official pubs less now but I haven't said dstacks don't happen, look, you either have a balanced game which is a mixture of D and O that somehow perfectly occurs without communication (pubs) or you have stacks, stacks go both ways. I think we see dstacks differently, it is subjective. In order for O to be effective ultimately all that is needed is a clear stand, if that is impossible then the gens need attention and the rest will come. Deployables are easier to counter than skilled players, yet deployables are complained about...it's the skilled players stacking up d not the deployables causing the problems here....IMO. I'm not sure what you are talking about. A dstack is a dstack, that doesn't mean capping won't occur. I've seen insane dstacks and a capper somehow squeezes out for a flag cap, that doesn't mean there wasn't a dstack. Whether the stand is clear for 5-10 second window a capper flies through has to do with coordination or luck, not the dstack. D stacks can take many forms. I've seen some insane ones with 2-3 HoFs, 3-4 LDs (chasers), throw in a sniper or two and vwala you have a dstack. Heck even 1 TCN is too many at that point, as anyone getting near the dstack will be obliterated, no turrets needed. I think this is something TCN mains, and you, still fail to see. Based on players alone you can get the job done, deployables/assets implemented the way they are in T:A, just adds a layer of fun-loving and cool on top of a dstack, that is beyond frustrating to people trying to play O. socalPK wrote: F' w/e .... when I tank I tank, if I get removed from my tank I might repair a bit but my focus is tank....it is rare to have a repaired base around me, I deal with what I have. Is the tank defensive, hells yes. How can it be offensive? I chase and kill cappers, I can not cap, I hurt heavies mortaring my base, I run over INFs attacking me or my base...even when I make that hale mary and kill a capper at his flag stand, it's defense. I'm ok with that....and I'm ok with those who will b**** and say how easy it is yet I must wonder why there are so few tanks generally....path of least resistance comments and all. Well you just affirmed what I was saying. TDMing midfield insert class here can do all those things, and arguably chase/kill cappers better then a tank. Not saying you aren't being objective, I just said tanking is guaranteed to be part of a dstack. You seem to agree, though you don't like the label. I wasn't dissing on tank in general. Most the time if I want a tank gone, its easy enough to go BRT and take it down (if not mobbed because only O of course). I am pretty sure most people hate tank because of its power in a dstack. Its the SEN effect. They can be powerful on their own, but manageable. Throw them in a dstack, and watch the rage flow. socalPK wrote: When I speak of official pubs I don't play tank much there, the matches are too short and the costs too high. When on Official pubs I am still often playing BRT O, unless I am really messing around and I go for a tank. Are you trying to say I am not playing enough to know what is going on? You might be right I suppose nowadays. But I think we simply see stacking differently, and while it isn't always my first choice in play, if a dstack starts to build I put heavy focus on bringing it down and keeping the flag stand clear. If a few other players do the same, we're good. The bigger question often becomes, do we even have a capper? You definitely play BRT O different then I do. I'm more actively engaging LD/HoFs to keep a larger window open for cappers. I'll fractal their stand if things are there of course, to clear deployables. I just know from playing an LD or insert D class here, that suicide fractaling can be rather ineffective in the scheme of me stopping a capper or not. socalPK wrote: Point away, it's become the sub-theme of the thread! There is no doubt people do care about stats and play accordingly, beyond play clearly stats give some some sort of justification in their minds to attack others in some way to discredit them. Like stats show skills and therefore some understanding over others. lol. Too many assumptions. There is always people who care about stats. I personally don't overall, I've only pointed out stats on people like Enigma who talk big but obviously couldn't back it up, or are easily disproved with what their stats/recent matches show. Something noticeable about your stats is the 20% kills by vehicle. Pretty high for the average player. So to say vehicle play is apart of your gameplay isn't a stretch. Then there was the repair stat, w/e it was, that shows a large part of your TCN time wasn't just in vehicles, but repairing bases. There will be bad/false assumptions of course (saying you never play O) but you can really get a feel for a player from looking at their stats. I don't mind that so much. socalPK wrote: I know we have different views on the game but I always thought our styles complimented...perhaps not. I've always thought the same. I like playing with you socalPK, not so much against you.. but I know you are a good guy even though we don't agree on things. I still want you to hop on mumble sometime and chat just for b.s./hangout sake. lol I just sit in the pub section of mumble with a friend or two. We might try getting more NAW people on the mumble as well, would be cool to finally have some community going on NAW. Attitudes overall have been sour there lately. I think a large portion of T:A that is lacking is the community feel T2 had. People get burnt out lone wolfing it. Its fun even if you are on opposite teams to just chat and hang out with the people you see daily. socalPK wrote: Honestly I don't play much anymore, less interest everyday. The game is ok, but the attitudes are tiring and disappointing for Tribes. I personally expect better from a Tribes community. Most the "Tribes" community moved on long ago.. you know this though. This is "Ascend" not Tribes. _________________ Last edited by Melanious on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Mindflayr Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:11 pm Posts: 603	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF For those looking for cool people to chat/play with (whether it be game chatter or just community) hit up the CAS forum for info on our Axon server. There are ~ 40 active CAS/CASi members who frequently play, and over 70 other community members who have open invites to join the pub chatroom anytime they are gaming or just want to chat. Its a good group and there are at least a few in it almost all day ever day, oftentimes up to 15-20. See sig for details. IN REGARDS TO TOPIC: +1 Core Spawns , +1 FF Changes, +1 Sen BXT Nerf +1 New Mpas by HiRez Approved Community Mappers. SAFE TEH TRIBBEZ! P.S. - If Dolby Axon info isnt public on Cas forums for some reason, just PM me here or there and Ill get you invite. _________________ [CASi] Mindflayr - [CAS] - Clan Alpha Saber - Dedicated to serving the public/pubbing community. Visit Our Homebase at CAStribes.com Looking to join a clan but not sure where to start? The [CAS] Initiate program may be for you.
Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:50 pm

GreekRage Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:51 pm Posts: 1164 Location: Sparta-Greece	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF twersx wrote: if anyone would like to hear nark's ranting about public games and the players within them out loud, with the funny accent he has, hop onto the EU mumble and join any public channel he is in ot; this sounds like a good idea. you wasted your time posting it to forums that HiRez do not read. APC stated on blue plate that nobody takes the forums seriously, they're just there so people can vent, no suggestions have ever been taken from here etc. B.S 1) got some personal reason to insult nark??....cause thats what it looks like..."get on mumble and make fun of nark "...sorta of thing is really wrong...what are you...12 years old ?? 2) Forums have been taken very seriously in the past but i doubt you even read them when it mattered. (you mAy wanna remember the Test server forums where player input was vital and devs depended on it ). The only reason no one takes them seriously now is simple...they dont give a rats a$$ about a dying game thats been dumped. Also im quite sure that Adam didnt mean it like you tried to show it to us....If Adam had said that he would be directly insulting everyone that took the time to post their suggestions and input...and i hardly think that hes that type of person... _________________ http://www.playapug.com
Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Nark51 Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF Twersx is just being silly, don't worry about it. I do have this inner monologue which I constantly speak aloud in mumble when I'm going up against D-stacks. It kinda keeps me from going insane when I'm constantly talking about it. Also, Core Spawns is probably a good idea. It still makes everyone's deployables/mines explode since the Pathfinder, Soldier and Juggernaut have none. It doesn't nerf cappers or offense that much either. _________________ Important things: Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.
Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:47 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 3038 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF +1 _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:56 pm

pala Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am Posts: 915	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF Core spawns are bad. You have stuff but not all needed stuff. It feels very unnatural and does not fit the game and only widens up the skill gaps, in some sense it could have worked nicely on earlier tribes with pick up packs and weapons. I could live with without snipers tho _________________
Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:34 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5291 Location: NA East	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF You get your fully loaded core classes. Unlocks and everything. Considering you can play this game very effectively without any unlocked classes, it's way more forgiving than Tribes games were. It's not naked at all. The only problem with core spawns is the absurdly slow stock repair times, though at this point, I think minus the generator it might be just, since base turrets are pretty OP. In pubs it would be fantastic, since it would be fairly easy, and not crippling to send 2 or 3 guys down there to grab tools and power repair the gen. In comp though, being a man down for 30s could be a pain. It probably wouldn't be worth the trouble to restructure the rules around, because of how it would give teams a "turtle" option, take a lead, and hunker down on defense, though I suppose if they kept mines banned, and turrets limited or banned, it could at least be a SEN counter. Not really familiar enough with the format to say, I guess. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:04 am

Nark51 Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom	Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF Core Spawns are not needed for comp because all of the rules have taken away most of the major issues that exists with pub play. And we definitely don't need more counters for the only thing countering 400km/h back2fronts when we have the overpowered invisible guy. _________________ Important things: Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.
Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:23 am

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Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

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-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5291
Location: NA East

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

Why did they veer so far away from Tribes with Ascend? The beautiful thing about a game being that good, is even if it doesn't gain massive amounts of players with fun-loving and cool gimmicks, and appeals to low skilled players with short attention spans, when it does captivate someone, it's almost absolute. It doesn't "lose" player base to anything that wouldn't have been lost by every other title.

You don't quit playing Tribes, because it's boring, or you found something else better. You quit playing Tribes, because you have a new job, or a kid to raise, and you don't have time for video games anymore. You quit Tribes because your computer broke, or is out dated, and you can't afford to fix it.

These people just don't get it.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Netsky200n

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 221

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

It's pretty much in the hands of other groups now. We may as well ignore the forums, as they do.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:10 am

Melanious

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm
Posts: 2232
Location: NA West

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

I guess I should clarify. I think Core spawns is the answer, not naked spawns so much. I haven't personally seen how naked spawns would play out, but I think it does discourage too much needed play (Offense) to work well. Core spawns would still give many a role in what they need to do, between killing off base assets, chasing, capping, stand disrupt, while taking away deployables as someone is killed (TCNs, SENs & DMBs). It would be nice if HiRez just implemented this upon any classes death, as to actively reward O for the job they are doing, instead of it being mitigated 5 seconds later.

I wouldn't hold my breath that HiRez will do work though, and because of that, Core Spawns is the best *this is what we have* option to implement. I don't think anyone thinks it will solve all dstacking, but again it helps, and makes more sense then what we have now.

socalPK wrote:

Which claims exactly? It is true I am playing official pubs less now but I haven't said dstacks don't happen, look, you either have a balanced game which is a mixture of D and O that somehow perfectly occurs without communication (pubs) or you have stacks, stacks go both ways. I think we see dstacks differently, it is subjective. In order for O to be effective ultimately all that is needed is a clear stand, if that is impossible then the gens need attention and the rest will come. Deployables are easier to counter than skilled players, yet deployables are complained about...it's the skilled players stacking up d not the deployables causing the problems here....IMO.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. A dstack is a dstack, that doesn't mean capping won't occur. I've seen insane dstacks and a capper somehow squeezes out for a flag cap, that doesn't mean there wasn't a dstack. Whether the stand is clear for 5-10 second window a capper flies through has to do with coordination or luck, not the dstack. D stacks can take many forms. I've seen some insane ones with 2-3 HoFs, 3-4 LDs (chasers), throw in a sniper or two and vwala you have a dstack. Heck even 1 TCN is too many at that point, as anyone getting near the dstack will be obliterated, no turrets needed. I think this is something TCN mains, and you, still fail to see. Based on players alone you can get the job done, deployables/assets implemented the way they are in T:A, just adds a layer of fun-loving and cool on top of a dstack, that is beyond frustrating to people trying to play O.

socalPK wrote:

F' w/e .... when I tank I tank, if I get removed from my tank I might repair a bit but my focus is tank....it is rare to have a repaired base around me, I deal with what I have. Is the tank defensive, hells yes. How can it be offensive? I chase and kill cappers, I can not cap, I hurt heavies mortaring my base, I run over INFs attacking me or my base...even when I make that hale mary and kill a capper at his flag stand, it's defense. I'm ok with that....and I'm ok with those who will b**** and say how easy it is yet I must wonder why there are so few tanks generally....path of least resistance comments and all.

Well you just affirmed what I was saying. TDMing midfield *insert class here* can do all those things, and arguably chase/kill cappers better then a tank. Not saying you aren't being objective, I just said tanking is guaranteed to be part of a dstack. You seem to agree, though you don't like the label. I wasn't dissing on tank in general. Most the time if I want a tank gone, its easy enough to go BRT and take it down (if not mobbed because only O of course). I am pretty sure most people hate tank because of its power in a dstack. Its the SEN effect. They can be powerful on their own, but manageable. Throw them in a dstack, and watch the rage flow.

socalPK wrote:

When I speak of official pubs I don't play tank much there, the matches are too short and the costs too high. When on Official pubs I am still often playing BRT O, unless I am really messing around and I go for a tank. Are you trying to say I am not playing enough to know what is going on? You might be right I suppose nowadays. But I think we simply see stacking differently, and while it isn't always my first choice in play, if a dstack starts to build I put heavy focus on bringing it down and keeping the flag stand clear. If a few other players do the same, we're good. The bigger question often becomes, do we even have a capper?

You definitely play BRT O different then I do. I'm more actively engaging LD/HoFs to keep a larger window open for cappers. I'll fractal their stand if things are there of course, to clear deployables. I just know from playing an LD or *insert D class here*, that suicide fractaling can be rather ineffective in the scheme of me stopping a capper or not.

socalPK wrote:

Point away, it's become the sub-theme of the thread!

There is no doubt people do care about stats and play accordingly, beyond play clearly stats give some some sort of justification in their minds to attack others in some way to discredit them. Like stats show skills and therefore some understanding over others. lol. Too many assumptions.

There is always people who care about stats. I personally don't overall, I've only pointed out stats on people like Enigma who talk big but obviously couldn't back it up, or are easily disproved with what their stats/recent matches show.

Something noticeable about your stats is the 20% kills by vehicle. Pretty high for the average player. So to say vehicle play is apart of your gameplay isn't a stretch. Then there was the repair stat, w/e it was, that shows a large part of your TCN time wasn't just in vehicles, but repairing bases. There will be bad/false assumptions of course (saying you never play O) but you can really get a *feel* for a player from looking at their stats. I don't mind that so much.

socalPK wrote:

I know we have different views on the game but I always thought our styles complimented...perhaps not.

I've always thought the same. I like playing with you socalPK, not so much against you.. but I know you are a good guy even though we don't agree on things. I still want you to hop on mumble sometime and chat just for b.s./hangout sake. lol I just sit in the pub section of mumble with a friend or two. We might try getting more NAW people on the mumble as well, would be cool to finally have some community going on NAW. Attitudes overall have been sour there lately. I think a large portion of T:A that is lacking is the community feel T2 had. People get burnt out lone wolfing it. Its fun even if you are on opposite teams to just chat and hang out with the people you see daily.

socalPK wrote:

Honestly I don't play much anymore, less interest everyday. The game is ok, but the attitudes are tiring and disappointing for Tribes. I personally expect better from a Tribes community.

Most the "Tribes" community moved on long ago.. you know this though. This is "Ascend" not Tribes. :lol:

_________________

Last edited by Melanious on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Mindflayr

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 603

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

For those looking for cool people to chat/play with (whether it be game chatter or just community) hit up the CAS forum for info on our Axon server. There are ~ 40 active CAS/CASi members who frequently play, and over 70 other community members who have open invites to join the pub chatroom anytime they are gaming or just want to chat. Its a good group and there are at least a few in it almost all day ever day, oftentimes up to 15-20. See sig for details.

IN REGARDS TO TOPIC: +1 Core Spawns , +1 FF Changes, +1 Sen BXT Nerf +1 New Mpas by HiRez Approved Community Mappers. SAFE TEH TRIBBEZ!

P.S. - If Dolby Axon info isnt public on Cas forums for some reason, just PM me here or there and Ill get you invite.

_________________
[CASi] Mindflayr - [CAS] - Clan Alpha Saber - Dedicated to serving the public/pubbing community.

Visit Our Homebase at CAStribes.com

Looking to join a clan but not sure where to start? The [CAS] Initiate program may be for you.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:50 pm

GreekRage

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: Sparta-Greece

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

twersx wrote:

if anyone would like to hear nark's ranting about public games and the players within them out loud, with the funny accent he has, hop onto the EU mumble and join any public channel he is in

ot; this sounds like a good idea. you wasted your time posting it to forums that HiRez do not read. APC stated on blue plate that nobody takes the forums seriously, they're just there so people can vent, no suggestions have ever been taken from here etc.

B.S

1) got some personal reason to insult nark??....cause thats what it looks like..."get on mumble and make fun of nark "...sorta of thing is really wrong...what are you...12 years old ??

2) Forums have been taken very seriously in the past but i doubt you even read them when it mattered. (you mAy wanna remember the Test server forums where player input was vital and devs depended on it ).
The only reason no one takes them seriously now is simple...they dont give a rats a$$ about a dying game thats been dumped.
Also im quite sure that Adam didnt mean it like you tried to show it to us....If Adam had said that he would be directly insulting everyone that took the time to post their suggestions and input...and i hardly think that hes that type of person...

_________________

http://www.playapug.com

Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Nark51

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

Twersx is just being silly, don't worry about it.

I do have this inner monologue which I constantly speak aloud in mumble when I'm going up against D-stacks. It kinda keeps me from going insane when I'm constantly talking about it.

Also, Core Spawns is probably a good idea. It still makes everyone's deployables/mines explode since the Pathfinder, Soldier and Juggernaut have none. It doesn't nerf cappers or offense that much either.

_________________
Important things:
Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O

Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.

Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:47 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 3038
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:56 pm

pala

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am
Posts: 915

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

Core spawns are bad. You have stuff but not all needed stuff. It feels very unnatural and does not fit the game and only widens up the skill gaps, in some sense it could have worked nicely on earlier tribes with pick up packs and weapons.

I could live with without snipers tho

_________________

Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:34 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5291
Location: NA East

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

You get your fully loaded core classes. Unlocks and everything.

Considering you can play this game very effectively without any unlocked classes, it's way more forgiving than Tribes games were. It's not naked at all.

The only problem with core spawns is the absurdly slow stock repair times, though at this point, I think minus the generator it might be just, since base turrets are pretty OP.

In pubs it would be fantastic, since it would be fairly easy, and not crippling to send 2 or 3 guys down there to grab tools and power repair the gen. In comp though, being a man down for 30s could be a pain. It probably wouldn't be worth the trouble to restructure the rules around, because of how it would give teams a "turtle" option, take a lead, and hunker down on defense, though I suppose if they kept mines banned, and turrets limited or banned, it could at least be a SEN counter.

Not really familiar enough with the format to say, I guess.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:04 am

Nark51

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF

Core Spawns are not needed for comp because all of the rules have taken away most of the major issues that exists with pub play. And we definitely don't need more counters for the only thing countering 400km/h back2fronts when we have the overpowered invisible guy.

_________________
Important things:
Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O

Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:23 am

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Enable naked spawns in official pub CTF